tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5628616877664827988.post5666157622639257212..comments2024-02-17T14:50:54.001-05:00Comments on Notes of an Anesthesioboist: Virtues of the ChosenT.http://www.blogger.com/profile/09208990104460795917noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5628616877664827988.post-84444663135261285222008-01-29T13:03:00.000-05:002008-01-29T13:03:00.000-05:00Spedu, you're not rambling at all. That last para...Spedu, you're not rambling at all. That last paragraph is especially brilliant and well-written - not a surprise, of course, coming from you! <BR/><BR/>Thank you for your valuable, well-articulated thoughts.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09208990104460795917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5628616877664827988.post-84127321263055483332008-01-29T08:59:00.000-05:002008-01-29T08:59:00.000-05:00Kudos on another well-thought entry, T. Sorry to ...Kudos on another well-thought entry, T. Sorry to jump into the middle of your exchange with Jeffrey, but I suppose it's not the first time I've hopped into the middle of something on your blog...<BR/>I, like you, am a not-so-good Catholic -- made it through 13 years of Catholic school with much less theology than most of my Protestant friends. Most of the time, this is embarrassing, but at times like this I feel confident leaning on my own study and what I've learned at the feet of holy men and women in my life.<BR/><BR/>Jesus was a rule-breaker. He wasn't gratuitous in it, but deliberate and destructive in his own right. He chose to be with the unwanted: women, tax collectors, sinners of all varieties. He publicly rejected the religious rules of his day that were more about appeasing men than living in God's way. And, as you say, he didn't get stuck in the public's unworthiness, instead he challenged them (and us) to make hard choices to live in love.<BR/><BR/>With respect to our Calvinist friends (and admitting that my understanding of Calvinism is limited), I think it misses Jesus' message to stop at the acknowledgment that we are plagued by sin. God's understanding of us is greater than we can even imagine -- God sees the sin and the redemption in each of us. True, we need God's grace, but it comes to us in many ways. (that's another amazing part about grace.) On our best days, WE are God's grace to one another, challenging and reflecting and making the journey with one another (even in this blog). <BR/><BR/>Christ deliberately lived in community with others and pushed from within to create movement towards life in love. I can't agree with the idea that redemption is between "me and my Jesus." It's not that easy. We have to find our redemption, I believe, where Christ left it: in the messy world of communities and other people who are just muddling through, sometimes acting as agents of sin, other time as agents of grace. We, too, have to challenge the rules that are more about appeasing people and less about a life in God's love.<BR/><BR/>I feel I'm rambling, so I'll leave here. Thanks again for the forum.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5628616877664827988.post-41826494837442105122008-01-29T01:17:00.000-05:002008-01-29T01:17:00.000-05:00yeap, i agree. limited atonement is leaning toward...yeap, i agree. limited atonement is leaning toward hyper-calvinism. <BR/><BR/>but i think i would still like to assert that there is nothing we can do by ourselves to save ourselves. <BR/><BR/>"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."<BR/>Ephesians 2:8-9<BR/><BR/>lest we should boast. we are saved because Christ loved us and is gracious. that is the amazing part about grace.<BR/><BR/>amazing grace (john newton) is a fantastic movie btw.Jeffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06540388790434163301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5628616877664827988.post-43158592811315096742008-01-29T00:16:00.000-05:002008-01-29T00:16:00.000-05:00Just looked at the last one, and it confirmed that...Just looked at the last one, and it confirmed that my faith - and by that I mean my understanding of what people call "God" and of the New Testament and its place in the world - is not aligned with Calvinism.<BR/><BR/>What I find in Christ's mind, through Christ's word to people, is not, "You're depraved through and through," but rather (and I quote), "The Kingdom of God is within you," "You are the salt of the earth," "You are the light of the world." <BR/><BR/>Any time he tells people, "Boy, you really suck," there's a context - some instance of hypocrisy or arrogance - but his general messages about humanity are not that we suck, but rather, that we are loved and lovable, pearls beyond price. He does acknowledge our tendency to lapse into self interest but tells us time and again that that's not who we are, not who we're meant to be, as fully human people - "Nor do I condemn you - go, sin no more.<BR/><BR/>It's not just the "total depravity" idea I find erroneous; I also wonder, in light of the line in Hebrews that explains that Christ died "once for ALL, the just for the unjust," and in the scripture from I John ii:2 - "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world," how Calvin came up with his concept of "limited atonement." I find most atonement theology in general problematic anyway and have found the Catholic concept, of a redemptive, perfect, inner work of love expressed outwardly by a fully- and freely-entered life and death, to be the most enlightening. Not that I'm a great Catholic, as I've written before, mind you...I'm just trying to keep growing in my understanding of these things.<BR/><BR/>I do appreciate the review/education about Calvin's ideas - thank you - but I cannot, in my current understanding of what the life of Jesus meant, reconcile them with the faith/spirituality I am working on right now.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09208990104460795917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5628616877664827988.post-84844777806157577442008-01-28T08:23:00.000-05:002008-01-28T08:23:00.000-05:00Oops. this resource is much better. i'm learning h...Oops. this resource is much better. i'm learning heaps from it.<BR/><BR/>http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/Jeffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06540388790434163301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5628616877664827988.post-11652013004947874662008-01-28T08:22:00.000-05:002008-01-28T08:22:00.000-05:00yup, i direct you to Calvin's TULIP. the explanati...yup, i direct you to Calvin's TULIP. the explanation is much better, lest i do injustice to Calvinism.<BR/><BR/>http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.htmlJeffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06540388790434163301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5628616877664827988.post-9763031046989988032008-01-28T07:05:00.000-05:002008-01-28T07:05:00.000-05:00I have a different interpretation of Christianity ...I have a different interpretation of Christianity from that of Calvin. I think we CAN be totally depraved but are fundamentally good. <BR/><BR/>I've written before that I think the meaning of Jesus' life is the affirmation of that true nature, that goodness, our preciousness as human beings. So I disagree that "we'll never be good enough;" I actually think he lived and died BECAUSE he wanted to teach us that we ARE good, are creatures of love and peace, if we could just learn that about ourselves. I think he wanted to hold up a mirror to us and say, "Look at you: you are worth all the love in the world."T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09208990104460795917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5628616877664827988.post-3529240741481855562008-01-28T05:02:00.000-05:002008-01-28T05:02:00.000-05:00hi T. good to read.but we'll never be good enough....hi T. good to read.<BR/>but we'll never be good enough.<BR/>and that is the amazing part about Divine Grace.<BR/>we are "totally depraved" (Calvin), and plagued by sin. our own efforts will never mend this broken relationship with God but here's some comforting thoughts:<BR/><BR/>"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."<BR/>Ephesians 2:8-9<BR/><BR/>"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." <BR/>John 14:6Jeffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06540388790434163301noreply@blogger.com